Ep 55 - Wisdom on Raising the Next Generation (Kiddushin 29b)

00:00 - Intro (Announcement)
You are listening to Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe of TORCH in Houston, texas. This is the Thinking Talmudist Podcast.

00:10 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Host)
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00:42
And remember, it's a tremendous mitzvah to spread Torah, so share the link right now, share it with a friend, click share and let's begin. So we are in the middle of 29B, intracted Kiddushin, and we started last week talking about the responsibilities that a father has towards his son, and now we're going to continue talking about those responsibilities. Okay, taner Rabbanu, rabbi's Torna Brisa Lifto sisbno v'lalos l'regel. If a man needs to redeem his son and to journey to the temple for the festival which was an obligation that every person had to go to the festival for every festival, each one of the three and to make a pilgrimage to Jerusalem to see the service at the temple, so what goes first when you have a limited amount of funds. Which one takes precedence? Takes precedence the redeeming of your son from firstborn status or right, buying him from the coin or going now to Jerusalem. Which one goes first For sure? The Talmud says here you redeem your son first. That's a higher priority and then you go to Jerusalem, rabbi Yehuda Omer. However, rabbi Yehuda says O l'regel v'achakach podes b'no. You should first journey for the festival and make the pilgrimage to Jerusalem and then, only afterwards, redeem your son, your firstborn son. Shezu mitzvah overes, v'zu mitzvah she'en overes. Because the mitzvah of the pilgrimage to Jerusalem is a passing, a fleeting mitzvah. It's a mitzvah that afterwards you won't be able to fulfill because it's no longer going to be holiday. But the mitzvah of redeeming the firstborn you can always do. Vizu mitzvah she'en over is. And the mitzvah of redeeming the firstborn is not a mitzvah that passes and therefore it can be performed later. So now the Gemara continues.

02:50
The Gemara seeks to clarify the reasoning of the first opinion. Bishlam l'Rabbi Hud. According to Rabbi Hud, we understand he gave his reason why you should go to Jerusalem instead of redeeming your firstborn, because one is a mitzvah that's passing and one is a mitzvah that you will have even later. El Rabbanu, but the rabbis who said that first you shall redeem your firstborn and then go to Jerusalem. What's their reason? Mayit ha'mayu Da'amakro? Because the verse states kol b'chor, b'necho tifteh, all firstborn of your sons you shall redeem, and only after that, it says and they shall not see my face empty-handed, since the first part of the verse deals with the mitzvah of redeeming the firstborn and the latter part of the mitzvah deals with the mitzvah of traveling to the temple and making this pilgrimage to Jerusalem. We can deduce from this that the mitzvah of redeeming the firstborn takes precedence and comes first, before the mitzvah of going up to Jerusalem. Okay, and you can always learn. You can always deduce from the order in which things are placed in the Torah. You can always deduce priorities, because the Torah is a perfect document. If Hashem wanted it to be otherwise, he would have ordered it otherwise, but Hashem didn't.

04:25
Another b'risah on the topic of redemption Tanar Rabbonon, the rabbi's Torah b'raisa minayin, she'im hayulo, chamish abonim, michamish, nashim, shechayiv, lifdos kulon. From where do we know that if a man has five sons from five women, five firstborn sons from five women, that he has to give and redeem each of those five, five firstborn sons from five women that he has to give and redeem each of those five all over again, right? So you have a guy who's married to five different women, not at once perhaps, maybe one after the other, gets married, has a baby boy, gets divorced, gets married another time with another woman, and again each time the firstborn of that woman is requiring a new pidyon haben, a new redeeming of the firstborn. So from where do we know, shechayiv liftos kulam, that he's obligated to redeem all of them? Talmud Lomer, we learn in the verse, if you remember that verse that we just mentioned. It says all firstborn of your sons you shall redeem. Since the verse states that all firstborn sons shall be redeemed, it can be inferred that a mother's firstborn son must be redeemed, even if he is the second or third born to the father.

05:56
Okay, the Gemara asks why a verse must be cited to teach this law. Pshita, why do you need to tell me a verse for us to learn this? I'd know this with logic. I'd know this. It makes it's common sense Common sense.

06:14
We know there's a rule the Torah tells us everything except for common sense, common sense the Torah does not tell us. If you can't understand it through common sense, then the Torah would be oblig us. If you can't understand it through common sense, then the Torah would be obligated to tell you that. But if you would not be able to deduce it from common sense, then the Torah needs to tell you. So, for example, the Torah doesn't tell us not to murder. The Torah doesn't need to tell us not to murder because that's common sense.

06:46
But what's everyone going to say? All the big scholars are going to say well, it does say that in the Ten Commandments. No, it doesn't. That's not what it says. When it says, if you look at all the commentaries, not to murder. It says in all of the commentaries what it really means is don't embarrass someone in public. That's not such common sense that you need the Torah to explicitly tell you that Don't steal.

07:13
It's not referring to that. It's referring to something else. It's referring to kidnapping. Now, kidnapping you know we get these alerts on our phones whenever there's a kidnap out in Kingwood, you know, someplace out in the middle of you know, you know what? Those kids. It's not that these kids are getting kidnapped, unfortunately. There are some times that people do, but many times it's a dispute in a marriage or a divorce and the father goes to pick up the child and the mother says well, I'm going to teach him a lesson. It's not his day, he's not supposed to pick up on Wednesday, he's supposed to pick up only on Thursday. So she calls it in as a kidnapping and that way he gets penalized in the courts and now he can't have visitation, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

08:01
So many of these are ludicrous, but many of them are serious and we have to realize that. But in such a case, right, the Torah deals with things that are not as simple to understand. So over here, the Gemara says why do we need a verse to tell us this? It's common sense, this is, it's obvious. Be'pet terechem tolerachmona, the merciful one, makes a child's liability to redemption dependent upon whether he is the one who opened the womb of his mother. And if five sons are all the initial children of five different wives, then each of these sons have opened the womb of his respective mother. So why do we need to have a verse for this? It's obvious, this is common sense. We see this also by. Oh, we'll see in a second.

08:58
The Gemara answers you might have thought that let us expound a gezer ha-shava. Gezer ha-shava is when you have the same word in two different places. You can link the two and say just like over here this rule applies, over here this rule applies, so we can do that as well when we see there are two times where we have the word Bechor, which means firstborn, written in the Torah. So now we're going to link the two and the Talmud's going to ask why can't we? Okay, what is the first?

09:37
The word Bechor written in connection with the redemption, to the word Bechor written in connection with inheritance. We would just make the following comparison Ma'alah ha'lon reshish ono. Just as there, in connection with inheritance, a Bechor is the son who is the first of his father's strength, the father's firstborn son. So you would think, well, in this case it's only when the father has his first son, but not the mother opens up her womb Af kan reshes ono. So too, you'll say here that it is the first of the father's strength, kamash malon. From here we learn that you do not make such a comparison and that's why you need the verse to tell you that. It means you can only have the verse bring you sorry. You can only say that it's common sense and we don't need a verse in a situation where you don't need the verse to specify a specific teaching.

10:48
Okay, the next clause of the Breisa. The Breisa says that a father must teach us on Torah. So now the Gemara derives the law from Scripture L'lamdo Torah min olam. From where do we learn that a father is obligated to teach us on Torah? D'chsev, because it says in the Torah what is that Torah? You're obligated to teach Torah to your children.

11:16
The Gemara continues broadening the obligation to teach Torah a step further and in a case where one's father has not taught him Torah, he himself is obligated to teach himself Torah. Why? Because it says and you shall study them, you shall study. So it's an obligation on yourself as well. If your father did not fulfill his mitzvah of teaching to his son Torah, then you know who's obligated. You are obligated, you are obligated to teach yourself Torah.

11:58
The Gemara now derives a mother's exemption from the mitzvah to teach her son Torah, from the mitzvah to teach her son Torah. From where do we know that a mother is not obligated with this responsibility of teaching Torah to her son? It is written, you shall teach. And by vowelizing the letters of the word differently, you may read it. You shall teach of the word differently, you may read it u li madetem, you shall teach. An exegetical comparison between the two words is thus established, yielding the following principle kol she mitzuvah lil mod mitzuvah l'lamid. Kol she einu mitzuvah lil mod einu mitzuvah l'lamid.

12:45
Anyone who is commanded to study Torah himself is obligated to teach their son Torah. But someone who's not obligated to study Torah is not obligated to teach Torah. So that's, if you vilimadetem, ulimadetem. Ulimadetem is that you're obligated and you shall also teach your sons, but that's only if you have an obligation to learn Torah. If you don't have an obligation, which a woman does not have an obligation a woman has a mitzvah to learn Torah. It's not a command that they're obligated to, but they'll definitely be rewarded for the Torah that they study.

13:26
Again, we mentioned this in our Parsha review podcast this week. In the podcast you won't find it on the video, but on the podcast, because we already it's exclusive content for our in-person audience. So what happens is so, after class, we discussed, okay, that we talked about the mitzvah of the bris, and okay. So where's the woman's mitzvah? Where's the woman's mitzvah? The answer is why do we have mitzvahs?

13:54
A mitzvah you have to look at it like this A mitzvah is like an anchor for a boat. Right, if you have a boat, that's you know you're afraid it's going to leave or it's going to depart with the waves or whatever. So you anchor it. You want it to stay in one place. But you, if you're on earth, you don't need to anchor yourself to earth. And women are not obligated to the Torah because they're on a pedestal and not needing the same requirement. What man needs. If you ask anybody who's more spiritual men or women hands down, men are less spiritual than women. I mean not even close. It's like a 10 to 1.

14:51
The metaphor that my dear friend, rabbi Yitzchak Feldheim, uses in talking about this topic. He says imagine a ladder. You have to climb up the ladder to get to the top. He says you know who's on top already the woman. Your wife is there already. She's hopefully not going to reach down too low to pull you up that she fall, all right.

15:15
So the above derivation rests on the fact that a woman need not teach herself Torah. The Gemara now determines the source for this. How do we know that a woman need not teach herself Torah? The Gemara now determines the source for this. How do we know that a woman's not obligated. V'i minol unto lemme chayvei, lemmeilaf nafshei. And from where do we know that a woman is not obligated to teach herself? Torah Tikhsiv, v'limadetem u'limadetem. Okay, so that we said that? Because if you change the vowels, it becomes you shall teach. If you're obligated to teach.

15:43
So kol she'acher mitzuv l'lamdo, mitzuv l'lamad esatzmo, and anyone whom others are commanded to teach is likewise commanded to teach themselves. V'chol she'ein acher mitzuv l'lamdo. And anyone whom others are not commanded to teach. Like a woman, ein mitzuv l'lamad esatzmo is not commanded to teach. Like a woman is not commanded to teach themselves. Hence, since a woman is not someone whom her father others quote is commanded to teach, it follows that she is not required to teach herself.

16:17
This derivation in turn rests on the premise that a woman need not be taught by her parents. The Gemara now derives the source for this וְמִנַיִן שֶׁן אַכֶר מִצְׁוּבְן לַמְדָה? And from where do we know that others are not obligated to teach her Torah דָּאָם אַקְרָ verse in the Torah says and you shall teach them to your sons, but not to your daughters. So you teach them only to your son, not to your daughters. So now Ebrayesad defines a man's obligation to study himself in relation to his obligation to facilitate his son's teaching. So now we have here three quarters of our viewers on Zoom are women, and don't be offended or insulted by how the Torah is telling you that you're not obligated to study Torah or to teach yourself Torah.

17:13
Again, women have an innate connection, an inborn connection, with their own spirituality, with their own relationship with Hashem. They don't need as many tools to connect. There are many parables we can share on this, to shed some light on this, and I don't think it's necessary. I think we have to just remember constantly that this world of quote equality that's been thrust upon us by our modern generation is really doing a disservice to our daughters, because it's pulling them down First, it's making them feel like they're inadequate and that they don't carry greatness.

18:04
Women carry the utmost greatness in Judaism, which is why a man is obligated to get married. Why is a man obligated to get married? Because if you don't obligate the man to get married, he's never going to get married. Because why would he want to tie himself down to someone who's going to help him climb that ladder? Let me just stay here at the bottom. No one has to bother me.

18:27
Hashem created a perfect world where, amazingly, a woman is not obligated to get married. But who wants to get married? The woman wants to. Why can't we just be boyfriend-girlfriend? Why isn't that fine enough? Because Hashem wants you to have a union where you're obligated to elevate yourself and climb one rung after another in your greatness, in your own personal growth. And a man's desire to be married to a woman and her desire to be married to a man is the way in which it brings about that perfection. He may not want it, but he has no choice. He has no choice. Can we hold the question until after? Okay, perfect, so remember it, please. Okay, the Gemara now says Toner HaBanon.

19:24
The B'risah defines a man's obligation to study Torah himself in relation to his obligation to teach Torah to his son. Who Lilmot of no Lilmot? If he has limited funds, he can hire a teacher for himself to learn Torah, or to hire a teacher for his child, his son, to learn Torah, or to hire a teacher for his child, his son, to learn Torah. Who goes first? Who? Kodim levno? He goes before his son. He takes precedence over his son. Rabbi Yehuda says If his son is diligent, bright and retains that which he has studied, then his son takes precedence over him. Okay, now the Gemara cites an example to illustrate Rebbe Judah's point.

20:16
This is like the episode involving Rebbe Yaakov, the son of Reb Acha, the son of Yaakov Shidare, avua lekamei da'abaye. His father sent him to study Torah under the great Abaye Ki. Also, when he came back home from some time at the academy of Abaye chaz yadolei havi, miyachdedin shmaytze, his father, miyachdedin shmaytze, his father. The father saw that he did not have an acute command of the material he was studying. The father said to him it's better that I go study than you, because if you're not grasping this and taking it all in, then maybe I should I go study than you, because if you're not grasping this and taking it all in, then maybe I should just go study Torah. You remain here so I will be able to go and study by Abaye.

21:14
The narrative continues. Abaye heard what Rav Acha bar Yaakov was coming to study instead of his son. Now, there was a certain demon that resided in the study hall of Abaye's academy and it presented such danger that when people would walk up to the study hall in piers, even during the daytime, they would be tormented by this demon. Amr lehu thus abayis heteh students. Lo leisiv leinish ushpiza. No one should invite Rav Acha to spend the night as a guest at their home, and he will therefore be forced to sleep in the study hall. And efshad meshrachesh nisa, perhaps, in the merit of his outstanding piety, a miracle will occur and the demon will be killed. Meaning what was he saying? He was approving of what the father did. The father is coming to learn instead of his son. And here the great Abay was approving it, saying maybe, in his merit, this demon will be killed. Al bas bah hu, beir Rabbonan. And so it happened. Rav Acha went and slept in the study hall and the demon appeared to him in the form of a seven-headed serpent. He began to pray for its destruction and at every bow that he took during his prayer, one of the serpent's heads fell off. Omar. The next day, aravach has said to Abaye and to his students Eloi Yisrachash, niso Sakintin, if a miracle had not happened to me, you would have endangered me. Why did you do this? But we see, I mean it wasn't a question, it was a rhetorical question, but we see that a great miracle happened. And here is how we're saying that, indeed, the father was right by overtaking the responsibility that his son had, that he had to teach his son Torah by him learning Torah, because he saw that his son wasn't connecting with it properly.

23:52
Ebrahim discusses further laws of precedence regarding the mitzvah of Torah study Toner Rabbonon, the Rabbi's Torah brais, lilmo Torah of Elisa Isha. If it's a matter of whether to study Torah or to take a wife, you have money or time to either get married or to study Torah. Which one takes precedence? Yilmo Torah v'chakar hisa isha. A man should first devote himself to the study of Torah and afterward take for himself a wife. So the Rush, one of the great commentaries, declares that he is uncertain as to the length of time that one ought to study Torah before taking a wife. He argues that one certainly may not reject marriage permanently in favor of Torah study.

24:44
For we find that this practice is condoned only in the rarest of instances, and even when it was, they were punished for it. The rarest of instances, and even when it was, they were punished for it. We see in the Tanakh. We see stories where certain individuals refrain from marriage because they were so busy studying Torah and they didn't want to disturb their study of Torah, because the pillar of the world is Torah study. And they were punished for it? Because the Torah says you're obligated to not only study Torah but to elevate yourself through.

25:20
Marriage is another responsibility that we have, where we take not only the live, a spiritual life in the spiritual world, but you take the physical world and elevate it as well, which is contrary to almost all religions where, the holier you are in other religions, you have to have complete abstinence and complete removal from all physical pleasures and all physical connection. This is not the way of the Torah. The Torah is no. You take the physical and you elevate the physical. The Torah is no. You take the physical and you elevate the physical.

25:57
And if he finds it impossible for him to remain without a wife, then he shall get married, get himself a wife and then study Torah. So, for example, we have the Mishnah tells us that every man at the age of 18 should get married. Shmona Yisrael L'Chuppah. We know that most guys don't get married when they're 18 years old. First is because guys are immature today, but even back then, in the time of the Talmud, you see that the Talmud refers to one who's 20 years old and didn't get married yet. Maybe our Gemara is soon going to say this Tipach HaTzmaisov his yeah, here we go, it's further down, it's the next, the end of this, gemara. The Gemara says that his bones should rot. Why? Because you're foregoing a mitzvah in the Torah. So we still see today that guys only start dating and trying to get married at 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, even Right, what are they waiting? Well, the Torah says you have an obligation to study Torah. And now you have to understand. Another thing Is that the more Torah one studies before they get married, the better husband they'll be anyway. So it's only to the benefit of the wife they're going to marry for them to study Torah first, because it'll only make them into a better husband, hopefully, if they take the Torah and study it properly.

27:25
Some rulings are issued on this question. Amr Aviyud, Amr Shmuel Aviyud, is said in the name of Shmuel Halacha, noseisha V'chakachimotor. We know that the law is actual law, not discussion. In the Talmud, actual law says that one should take a wife and afterwards study Torah. However, rabbi Yochanan says that with a millstone around his neck one can study Torah. Is that so that while he's working he can also study Torah? Certainly not. Therefore, one should first devote himself to Torah study and then afterwards he should get married. The Gemara concludes low plagi, they're not arguing, there's no dispute here.

28:11
Halon v'halahu, for this ruling of Shmuel was issued for the Jews of Babylonia. What was that rule? That you should first get married and then study Torah V'halahu. And for us Jews of Israel, we should first get married and then study Torah. What was the distinction between the two? What was the distinction between the two?

28:36
The men of the Babylonian community generally accomplished the bulk of their learning away from home. As they would travel to Eretz Yisrael, they would travel to the land of Israel to study the Mishnayas of the Tanoim. For these men, then, marriage was less likely to interfere with their course of study, since they would be relatively free of familial responsibility while away in Eretz Yisrael, in the land of Israel. Shmuel therefore advised them to marry before studying, and by doing so they would eliminate lustful thoughts from their minds at an earlier stage in their lives, and we'll see this later. The Gemara is going to say that one of the Tanayim got married when he was 15 years old, and the sages said that what a praiseworthy scholar he was, because he got married before they did and while they had temptations and challenges. He didn't because he was married already and he says if I could have, I would have gotten married even earlier. Okay, an incident emphasizes the point that a man should seek to marry early, and this is exactly the story we just said.

29:57
Rav Chizda praised Rav Hamnuna to Rav Huna, saying that he was a great man, amar Le Rav Huna replied to Rav Chizda when he comes to you, when you see him, bring him to me. Eventually, rav Hamnuna came and visited and when he arrived to meet Rav Hunna, rav Hunna saw that he was not wearing a cloth covering his head. He wasn't wearing a yarmulke, amarlei. He therefore said to him For what reason are you not wearing a cloth, amarlei? Rav Hamruna replied to him For I'm not married. I think it may be referring to his talus over his head. When Rav Hamruna heard this, he turned his face away from him. Amar-leh, he said to him. He says see to it that you do not look upon my face again until you are married.

31:03
The Gemara explains Rav Hunah's harsh response. That means he said he's such a great man because he was a great Torah scholar, but he wasn't married. He saw that he didn't put I guess it was his talus, where they had a special head covering that they would wear a special type of turban that married men would wear. He saw he wasn't wearing it. He's like what's going on? He says oh, he's a great man in Torah, but he's not married. He says till you get married, don't look Look at me.

31:40
The Gemara explains Rav Huna's harsh response. Rav Huna was going according to his own opinion. According to Rav Huna, if a man reaches the age of 20 and he has not yet taken a wife, he will live each of his days in sin. And the Gemara asks in astonishment can you really think that he will live each day of his life in sin, committing acts of immorality constantly, because he did not get married before the age of 20? The Gemara replies rather, what Rav Hunah means to say? Not necessarily that he is committing a sin or acting in a sinful way, but rather you will live each of his days with thoughts of sin. As an unmarried man, he will lack a permissible outlet for the passions inherent in man's nature and will come to entertain licentious thoughts regularly.

32:45
The theme of Rabbi Vanuna's statement is corroborated by a price. Amar Rava Rava says V'chol Tana Debe Ravishmol, and this was also taught. V'chol Tana Debe Ravishmol, and this was also taught in the Academy of Rabbi Shmuel Until the age of 20 years old. The Holy One, god, creator of Heaven and Earth, blessed is His name. Hashem sits and waits for men asking when is he going to get married? When is he going to take upon himself the responsibility of marriage? V'kivan shigia chav felon nosa. When he reaches 20 and has not yet married, omer, the Almighty says tipech atzmosav, let his bones rot or let them swell.

33:37
In connection with the above, the Gemara reports a comment of Rav Chisda. Rav Chisda said because I got married when I was 16. And had I married at 14,. So I made a mistake. I was wrong. It wasn't 15 and 13. It was actually 16 and 14. And if I got married earlier, when I was 14, I would have been able to say to the Satan arrows in your eyes, meaning I would be so capable to overcome any type of temptation and any type of challenge in this regard that I would. I would be so holy and so powerful. A note of pedagogical advice Omar le rovo.

34:37
L'ravnosan bar'ami Rava said to ravnosan bar'ami Adiyodoch al tzavor ei divrich, while your hand still prevails over the neck of your son, make certain to guide him with ethical reproof. Mishitzar ve'ad esrim ve'tarti. When is the time for this reproof that you should be providing to your son? From 16 years to 22 years, ve'amerlei. And some say mitam nisrei ad esrim ve'arba. From when? From 18 until 24. And we mentioned this when we talked about criticism. Right, when is the time? Is the time where they're old enough to understand and to accept criticism? Beyond that age, they're going to rebel. Younger than that age, it's not going to have influence. There's a certain proper time.

35:34
The Gemara observes, like we saw in the B'raiso chanoch l'narop yildarko, that you must that. We know this from Proverbs, where King Solomon teaches us teach your youth according to his way, meaning while a child is still a youth, you should train him on the way that he should conduct himself throughout his life. At what age is a child considered a youth? Omer Rav Yehuda and Rabbi Nehemiah? Rav Yehuda and Rabbi Nehemiah dispute this. Chad, omer Mishitzar ve'ad Esrim ve'Tartin. One says from 16 until 22. Chad, omer M'tam Nisrei ve'ad Esrim ve'arbo. One says from 16 until 22.

36:19
And one says that it is from 18 years old till 24 years old that we are obligated to give this criticism to our children and guide them on the right path. So I think, if we want to summarize what we studied today, it's a man's obligation to teach a son Torah. It's a man's obligation to marry him off, but it's more than both of those things. It's a man's obligation the father and mother's obligation to educate their child and give them guidance, and this is something that never really expires. But there's a time where it's more common for them to accept what it is that we're saying.

37:02
I think, as a general rule, in our generation, children are not as acceptable, they're not as malleable as they once used to be, because everything is okay. It's okay, just make a post, a silly post on youtube, on, on facebook, on twitter, any of the social media and everyone's gonna like it. And the crazier it is, the more ridiculous it is, the more people will like it. And you go on tiktok and people do silly things there and oh, the millions of likes. And the truth is is that it's much more difficult for our education because everybody is okay with me. Why are you not okay with me? The only people who are not okay with me is my parents. Oh, my parents, I don't. You know. It's very difficult for people today to accept criticism.

37:51
I think that we have to know our generation and that, just like in other generations, they had their own unique ways in which they needed to educate their children. Today, the same is true. We have different ways. It's different, it's a different generation, it's a different world that we're living in, and we need to recognize that Hashem should bless us all, that we should merit to educate our children and our grandchildren, our great-grandchildren, in good health, with happiness, with success, and to also merit to instill in them the love of Torah every single day, to marry them off well, to give them trade and give them common sense, and to give them a backbone so that they can continue to thrive in their relationship with Hashem forever and ever. My dear friends, have an amazing Shabbos and an amazing, beautiful Pesach.

Ep 55 - Wisdom on Raising the Next Generation (Kiddushin 29b)
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